I am an American

[Max]

This is my country
And I'm not proud of everything she's done
But still, this is my country
And until death, I am an American

Let us take a look through history
And attempt to analyze highlights of war and misery
But also those of hope and the triumph of humanity

The truth is that colonists paid lesser taxes than British citizens
But the American rebellion could have been a needed offense
Of an empire, which at the time, had only enemies and no friends
A ragtag army tried to bring the age of empire to an end

All countries fight amongst themselves more than against others
This is the way of the world, to quarrel with your closest brothers
Our civil war widowed many good wives, and many mothers
I am grateful that my Mississippi ancestor lived to be a father

What is there to say of World War Two?
I'm sorry Europe, but for a millenia, war was all that you knew
Was this not justification enough to develope the nuke?
Don't ever forget who is was that saved you
From two dictators and their Hellish crews
Perhaps dropping the bomb wasn't the most moral thing to do
But would you not have done the same, if the choice was for you?
In times of struggle, good men are far and few
But who are we to say in hindseight "THIS was wrong, I am true"

For every racist Klan leader, we also have Martin Luther King
A man of color who showed everyone that all races could sing
Together in harmony a song of equality and freedom for all
Never has their been a more noble quest or call

Up until this past year, I had a problem with those in charge
Ignorant to the masses, so long as their pockets were large
But everything is all right for now, for a new day has come
I hope to the powers that be that the dawn of ignorance is done

Lastly, we come to rest the finger on today
And I see many things, when I look Lady Liberty in the face
I feel sorrow, I feel hope, I feel united and betrayed
But we've faced worse times than this
So I will not be a coward, and I am not afraid



This is my country
And I'm not proud of everything she's done
But still, this is my country
And until death, I am an American

[apocalypticjay]

Although I agree America did 'help ' Britains cause against Hitler, America's first responce was to ignore our pleads until Japan attaked Pearl Harbor then a declaration of unity against all war was made. I'm not a general debater and I have my views and opinions and they are what they are mine. Berlin was also taken by the Russians where hitler was 'based' so technically that was their score. Either way you show true patriotic colours and I as a patriot for my own cause cannot ignore that and show my respect for you Max, truly an inspiring write!

[Max]

Upon reading this, I could see how my stanza on WW2 was a bit arrogant, and I completley agree that America was isolationist before Pearl Harbor. I would have loved to touch on that (as well as the massacre of Native Americans) but I didn't want to drag the poem on too long. Whether or not we agree on something or not Jay, you are free to address the point as much as you like, for I have a great deal of respect for your views. Thanks very much for the response!

[Dr Fogg]

Don't ever forget who is was that saved you
From two dictators and their Hellish crews


Brilliant poem, and as an American you have naturaly tended to highlight your countries hand in events. Jay was quite right in pointing out that things are not so simple. But this is a poem and of course i am sure you would have wished to cover things in more detail. As a Brit my perspective is somewhat different, We stood alone and friendless for a while, then just when we had that blighter licked along comes John Wayne and snatches the glory. I say that of course tongue in cheek. The real truth is that Russia took the beating, lost 25 million people and fought back to give Hitler his first real defeat. Had Hitler not invaded Russia things might have been very different. A Germany not saddled with the Russian campaing might very well have pushed us out of Europe, catastrophic losses of American boys would soon have turned American public opinion against the war and rekindled isolationism. So we owe our freedom to Hitlers arrogance and Russias bloody determination. If a poem sparks off this kind of debate it has done its job.Exalt

[polonius]

America has fought its share of aggressive wars through its short history of independence, Climax. The wars with Mexico, its attacks on Canada, notably in the 1812 war, the Spanish war when you gained control of the Philippines and parts of Cuba, and Puerto Rica. However, had America entered World War II earlier, Japan may have been forestalled.

The USA is the now the mainstay of world peace, having taken the mantle from Britain, and I am glad of its military tradition. Without it, the world would be a jungle of tinpot powers ripping each other apart.

On the other hand the Ku Klux Klan was the product of foreclosures against white farmers and the selling off of their lands to blacks in the Reconstruction period.

Martin Luther King was a plagiarist, and had strong links to terrorist groups like the Weathermen and the Black Panthers. The only really good thing about him was that he was a whoremonger, like me.

[Dr Fogg]

Polonious one mans terror group is anothers freedom fighter. If Isreal took over Texas and their troops intimately searched American women at every border point, I think many Americans might just become terroists as the palestinians have. Given the obnoxious race laws at the time of luthor king I think terrorism was justified.

[Max]

Thank you all for the responses, and I agree with what the good doctor has just said. It doesn't make much difference to me how the Klan got started, they are an abomination in the history of my country and I wish grave misfortune upon anyone sporting their white hood. They are Nazis of another form, and they are disgusting. MLK jr was a saint compared to the likes of Malcom X... to be black during the 1950s, I daresay that I would be a radical as well

[exmrn27]

In history, we must deal with the times those actions were done, and the background of the said culture that went along with those actions.

In a modern sense, we can easily debate who was wrong, right, or who should have not done what --- because you have the luxury of doing so.


For instance, the point wasn't that that colonists were being less taxed than in British Empire, as it was various other matters relating to taxation, it was the King's error and his terrible diplomacy that brewed that situation. You have to study how the English Empire at the time treated Colonies versus the British citizenry in England. At best the Colonies were posts suited to draw economic wealth back to the old country by any means possible. Stamp Acts, Quartering Acts, the costs that were pressed upon the colonies from the English Government's expenditures from the French and Indian War. Especially the Quartering Act, in which an American colonist's duty, was to cater to any British soldiers that were in their area to food, shelter, and what ever else they wanted ---- an intrusive edict that probably angered the colonists more than any tax ---- by the taxes were affecting their means of trade as well.

I would say the huge turning point that really turned the screws into the colonial heart, was the death of William Pitt, who was a war hero during the French and Indian war, with Charles Townsend --- and the said Townsend Acts that imposed more taxes and heavy handed imperial institutions, for he was quite Pro-Crown and looked at the colonies as --- true enough to British expansion --- an economic factory for the British machine.

Poor diplomacy, the fact that the Royals tried to maintain order 1,000 miles away in a place that was quite rough in terms of country and threat from Indian raids --- because they in kind saw both British and Americans as hostiles even though later, some would side with the American forces and others with the British. They were also engaged in war with France, so their better members of both diplomacy and the military were already being used, along with a still non-paid debt due to their wars in Canada.

Plus there are other smaller things but the modern view that the colonists were simply spoiled brats who became greedy is not only re-written history, but its also a false premise.

Now for World War II, the United States at the time was going through a very Anti-War phase, with a strong emphasis on not being dragged into world affairs because we still operated on a closed-in, lone wolf policy. We were actually in the process of sinking war ships in the ocean to decrease Naval presence because it was looked at as a needless expenditure, more rather, the ships would be act as barrier reefs once the ocean grew over their hulls.

Diminished military, the people were very sower over Woodrow Wilson's late and shadowy means of getting into World War I --- and also the country was in a Great Depression. It was thought that the avoidance of war all together was the best policy, even if it meant that you had to let a few countries become swallowed up --- something England also shared, for the powers that be, along with France had decided " who would really miss Chekelsovokia?"

Of course we know how that turned out.

America had a huge involvement in the turning of the war, however, just as in World War I, I would argue that England's resilience is what saved the Western world from the total subjugation of Hitler's Germany. The final days of Dunkirk was a near miss for the British, their backs were to the ocean and the German Army in all of its entirety in front of them, if it weren't for the valiant efforts of various boats, transports, of any kind from the main land, Britain would have pretty much been check-mated right then and there, to Hitler's folly, his Generals wanted to push the British army into the sea, but for some reason he simply decided to not waist the manpower --- he figured he could simply silence Britain by show of force, and that the Prime Ministers and politicians would simply sign a truce and he would deal with England later.

This would be a fatal error. We actually owe a great deal of gratitude to Air Marshall Hugh Dowding and his accomplishments with Britain's Air defense and the re-arming of the RAF, not only with the first radar system ever to be devised, but also the way in which he planned to engage the German Luftwaffe in the Battle Of Britain.

When Churchill said " Never have so few sacrificed so much for so many..." he was referencing the vastly outnumbered RAF Spitfires and Hurricanes who pushed back Goreing's air force. The Air superiority of Britain was the key to advance the invasion of the Britain itself --- well for the good of everyone, Hugh Dowding's " Chicks" won that enormous fight --- thus setting the breathing room and stage for a counter attack by allied forces --- the main players being American, Britain and Canada.

Germany's luftwaffe was beaten by a scant 1,000 or so Spitfires and Hawker Hurricanes, of which many could not be in service due to various repairs, so really they fought some 1200 planes at times, with only 800 aircraft in the sky.


Pheww... didn't I rant a bit? Sorry --- its a hobby of mine I guess.

Ex ( Mike )

[exmrn27]

one more thing.


Truman and his decision to use both bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

To day, we can also debate the moral horrors of using the neuclear bomb, but I would equally argue, we would instead be studying the very long, costly, and tedious battle of Main Land Japan in the same manner if it happened the other way.

As some historians keep the assumption that the Japanese were ready to surrender, if you do the research, the Japanese citizenry were ready to take just about everything, including the kitchen sink to either kill or kill themselves for the American invasion. Emperor Hirohito was not going to surrender --- because in the Japanese culture of war, operating in the culture of that time period, to surrender was Dishonor for the Japanese and they would rather commit Sepukku instead of doing so --- even when faced with bursting bombs and the U.S Marine Corps.

The public education system does a highly poor job at talking about the Pacific theater because its become a politically correct animal, so most just say --- well Pearl Harbor happened --- and the raising of Iwo Jima --- then 2 bombs.

They don't talk about the Bataan Death March, the butchery of Nanking, the subjugation of Korea under Japanese Rule along with China --- the atrocities committed to the Samoans and Philippines when they took those island chains. You can't find a battle that the U.S Marines fought with the Japanese Army without reading lost lives within the rang of 100,000 plus. They fought to the death, even when fighting was essentially futile from a military stand point. They at times, had no one surviving from each regiment --- at best you'd see something like 2,000 Japanese soldiers killed --- and three surrendering.

The battle of Okinawa was what gave the conclusion, even after they lossed, and continued to want to commit to war, that the Japanese Mainland would be a devastating human disaster for both military and civilian alike. The cost, man power, and loss of life would have made the Hiro and Nagasaki deaths look like chump change. It was in the end, total war.

They had to do something that would be immediate, devastating, and able to break the resolve of a cornered animal ready to fight to the death...

And so the nukes were used. Sadly, horribly, but I would argue --- it was the fault of war hawks controlling Japan.

[carousal]

If I may add a few points. You were quite right to point out the significance of the battle of Britain, if we had lost that Britain wouldn’t have lasted a month or more. As a soldier you will know as I do, that what wins wars is fire power, not the bravery or determination of soldiers.
The fact was that at that time what was left of British army’s equipment was utter crap. It didn’t improve much later.

Germany came mighty close to defeating Russia; with the release of troops and equipment in Europe and Norway; with no Middle East war to fight plus the oil fields from Libya etc I feel the result would have been a different one.

America wouldn’t have had a base in Europe and without that the air attack by the joint British and American air forces on Germany’s industrial heartland would not have taken place let alone the invasion of the European mainland.

Would Germany have developed the A Bomb? Well they would have had four clear uninterrupted years to have done so, plus they were streets ahead in rocket technology and jet design. Would they attacked America; you can bet your sweet life they would.

Yes, not only does Britain owe a debt to ‘the few’, the whole of the civilised world does.

[Max]

Carousal, you raise good points. I believe that had German troops breached Moscow, the world would be a very different place today. With the Soviets defeated, Japan and Germany would have access to the West Coast of the United States via Alaska and Canada. So many things had to go right to knock down the Nazi regime... the Brits had to hold off the Luftwaffe, the Russians had to hold Moscow and Stalingrad, I have to respect Germany for doing what they did with only one real ally in Europe, being Italy, who couldn't fight worth a damn.

[Dr Fogg]

MY Dad and his part in Hitlers downfall.


I have to point out in honour of my father the part he played in defeating Hitler. When I was about 7 years old i found my dad's helmet. Being curious I fished it out of the box and put it on.
I walked up to my dad and asked about it. Particularly about the dent in it. Did he get the dent on D Day? or fighting japanese in Burma?
He sat me on his knee and told his story.
He was at the time to old to be conscripted into the army and as a farmer he was in a reserved occupation. So he joined the Auxillary fire service and served throughout the war as long as it wasn't milking time!
"Did you save anyone from a bombed building" i asked hopefully? Er No he replied we never actually fought a single fire in 5 years apart from the vicars bonfire that got out of control."well what about the dent" I asked. "The dent was caused by your mother when she hit me with her rolling pin one evening after I returned home rather late from training in the ruptured whippet"
Somewhat deflated I returned the helmet to its box where it still remains. He still remained a hero to me, I'm sure he fought the vicars bonfire quite valiantly.